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Colombian territorial sovereignty

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1 Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 4th 2009, 20:29

Hello Delegates...as our chair had asked for, here is the first topic with a definite question of. As I have stated on other post, Colombia will work with its sovereignty and placing american bases in the region. Since some other south american countries are against these bases, there is where we have issues...

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2 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 8th 2009, 18:02

The USA millitary bases in Colombia is a mistake. None of the various US intervention in South America caused any benifts to sa countries, but to the US.

The bases also threatens Venezuela's teritory, and there is no sense in denying it since the bases surronds Venezuela's border with Colombia; and the invasion of Ecuador's terriory in 2008 make it more clear to predict Colombia's (which is 100% influenced by US) intensions.

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3 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 8th 2009, 18:31

Venezuela_Vanessa wrote: None of the various US intervention in South America caused any benifts to sa countries, but to the US.

Delegate, please state at least one flaw of the US Intervention IN Colombia, since that's what all of this is about...

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4 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 13th 2009, 12:22

The US military bases in Colombia is an obvious example, since it is the issue in discuss.

Besides, US interventions have been more intense in other countries, for example the food company in Batista’s Cuba … now, that most of the interventions are overcome and US had lost "power" in SA countries, its relying in Colombia, which is UNEXPECTEDLY bordered with Venezuela.

In fact, US haven't done much honorable work in Latin American countries since the end of colonies, and military bases isn't the correct way to start it. The bases are already creating tension, and this tension is heading to conflict - and by conflict the delegate mean war-.

So, the Venezuelian government believes that most of the countries present in the American caucus, including Venezuela itself, are not looking for war. And therefore the US should stop now, unless war is what USA is looking for.

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5 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 13th 2009, 22:28

Chavez ideas are eccentric, out to launch, and wrong.

Delegate, this comment is not appropriate for the forum. Please provide facts and evidences proving your country's position regarding Venezuala and/or his head of state Chavez. (Why Chile is opposed to Venezuela? Sticking to your country's position doesn't merely mean attacking countries blindly, but rather arguing through comments backed up with concrete facts.
Thank you,
Oscar (forum admin)

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6 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 14th 2009, 16:21

chile_tiago wrote:Chavez ideas are eccentric, out to launch, and wrong.

Delegate of Chile, Venezuela respect the opinion help by the nation represented; however the Delegation of Venezuela won't take in consideration your words if you don't support them with facts.

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7 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 14th 2009, 22:01

The facts are these: Venezuelas alliances denounce its ultimate intension, which are to oppose itself to the United States, acquire nuclear weapons and establish dictatorial hegemony over the rest of South America.
Russia is allie of Iran, it is transfering nuclear technology to Iran, while both countries claim that this nuclear technology is for peacefull porposes it is well known that Iran wants to be the dominant military power in the middle east. They have long range missiles, and they want to develop nuclear war heads. In these programs, Iran has colaborated with North Korea, acknowledge to be the most psychopathyc rogue states in the world today. Iran's first step upon attaining nuclear weapons will be to bomb Israel, perhaps triggerin a nuclear 3rd World War. These psychopathyc states are Venezuela closest allies. By inserece we can conclude that Venezuela wants nuclear weapons as well. Venezuelas leader has revealed himselve to be mentaly unsteable enough to use nuclear weapons should he succed in obtaining them.

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8 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 15th 2009, 19:16

Venezuela_Vanessa wrote:The USA millitary bases in Colombia is a mistake. None of the various US intervention in South America caused any benifts to sa countries, but to the US.

The bases also threatens Venezuela's teritory, and there is no sense in denying it since the bases surronds Venezuela's border with Colombia; and the invasion of Ecuador's terriory in 2008 make it more clear to predict Colombia's (which is 100% influenced by US) intensions.

Just for the delegate to be aware, US counternarcotics actions in Manta (Ecuador) were really successful for the fights against drugs. These operations, all facilitated by the US were credited with more than two-thirds of all the successful drug seizures in the eastern Pacific

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9 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 15th 2009, 23:10

DELEGATION OF CHILE, Iran economic ties with North Korea are their economic ties, not Venezuela's. As stated before, if the delegate were to suspect of all the allies of the nations considered to be Venezuela's allies, the delegate would end up suspecting more than half of nations reconized by the UN.

The topic in discuss is Venezuela's nuclear energy plan, not Iran economic ties.

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DELEGATION OF COLOMBIA, if the delegate took in consideration the damage done to the SA nations because of US' interventions, the measure token by the US towards drugs in Ecaudor is insignificat.

Delegate, the Colombian government has not shown any moral reason for the military bases. The fact that the bases were plan to be placed in the Colombian/Venezuelan border shows Colombia's intension towards the current tension between Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela. Colombia has IMMORALY invaded Ecuador, and the bases are and easy target to a future, possible invasion of the Venezuelian terriory.

The Delegate should be aware that the military bases may result in something more drasticly than just military bases. And this is what worries Venezuela.

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10 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 16th 2009, 12:59

Delegate,

Venezuela and Russia have a deal of 2 billion dollars used for arms. If there is someone with any intention of invasion, Venezuela is the one who gives more evidence.

The Delegate should be aware that the arm deals may result in something more drastic than just arm deals. And this is what worries Colombia.

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11 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 16th 2009, 17:12

The delegate of Colombia is mistaken, it wasn't a 2 billion dollars arm deal between Venezuela and Russia, it was a 2.2 billion. The delegate should be aware that Chavez, personally, was the one who announced the deal, and Chavez wants every nation in the world and every citizen within these nations to see how far and tense US' intervention in Colombia has gotten. As Chavez stated: "Venezuela has no plans to invade anybody, nor attack anybody. These arms are necessary for our national defense." ]

Once again the delegate of Venezuela would like to state that the military bases threaten Venezuela's territory and the nation as a whole. The tanks held by the Venezuelan government had served the country for about 30-50 years; there is no way to protect a Venezuela's territory with old technology, at least not in this situation. Chavez never wanted to need to make this deal, but there is no nation, no money, no threats that could buy or interfere with the protection of Venezuela's territory and most important, Venezuela's citizens.

Colombia_Gabriella wrote:
The Delegate should be aware that the arm deals may result in something more drastic than just arm deals. And this is what worries Colombia.

Delegate, the issue in discus is a very serious one, there is barely space for mistake and NO space for sarcasm, what happens in the UN reflects in the entire world, the delegate must be careful with Colombia's actions and thoughts because the Colombian citizens' lives are the one threatened.

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12 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 16th 2009, 18:33

As the delegate has quoted your president and said there are no plans for invasion, the US and Colombia have no intention for it either.
“We aren’t talking about a political game,” he said while presenting pictures of victims of guerrilla violence. “We are talking about the basic right of Colombian society to overcome a threat that has produced so much blood.”
(Uribe)

“is a continuation of a partnership that we believe, and the Colombians believe, has helped to make life better.”
said Hillary Clinton, referring to the base deal.

This makes it evident the one and only purpose for these bases is peace and security since "the Colombian citizens' lives are the one threatened."

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13 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 16th 2009, 19:48

So the delegate of Colombia is saying that Colombia has no intension to invade Venezuela; the same way Colombia stated that there is no connections between Uribe and the coup in Honduras, and that Colombia defends Zelaya's government.

Well, the delegate of Venezuela find it quite interesting Colombia's action and plans in relationship with Colombia's sayings. So why did Uribe had a PRIVATE meeting ALONE with Hondura's coup leader and had NO press release about it after all?

Anyways, the delegation of Venezuela would like to take note of this facts:
1. Colombia said, in the past, that it had no intensions of invading Ecuador. However, it unexpectedly, immoraly and unrespetfully crossed Ecuador/Colombia's border threating the lives of innocent citizens in Ecaudorian nation.
2. The bases are plan to be place in Venezuela/Colombia's border.
3. Colombia is already the third-largest recipient of U.S. military funds
4. a) Colombia has received nearly six billion dollars in military aid from the United States since 1999
b) And before that there was 13 billion dollars aid from US to Colombia
5. The hundred american non-peacekeeping soilders that are serving in Colombia, currently

Sorry delegate of Colombia, but what Colombia has stated is proven to be irrelevant by Colombia itself. Since oil reserves were discovered in Venezuela, US has been targeting Venezuela; and interfering in Colombia was one of the quickest and easiest way the US found to attack Venezuela. Colombia is not trusthworhty; the arms deal between Russia and Venezuela were unfortunatly necessary and so was the arm deal between Brasil and France, Ecuador and Brazil and Israel, Bolivia and Russia. Yes, the delegate of Colombia might have noticed that most nations within the American caucus and the world choose to be against US military bases in Colombia. The 12 South American nations have spent over 51 billion dollars in military aids to protects it borders because of US' intervention in Colombia; so delegate, don't blame Venezuela, Venezuela was one of ALL South American nations that chose to protect their innocent citizens from Colombia (obviously meaning, US).

Here are message from Russia and SA's leaders to Colombia and US:
Chavez - "You can establish 70,000 Yankee bases surrounding Venezuela, but you aren't going to beat the Bolivarian Revolution!" Chavez declared this week.

Evo Moralez - "If the United States doesn't want to sell to us, there's China or Russia," Bolivia's Evo Morales said while celebrating the Russian credit line this month.

Celso Amorim - "We have a problem that can't be swept under the rug," Brazil's foreign minister Celso Amorim said last week.

Leonid Goluveb - "We are prepared to satisfy whatever need the Bolivian armed forces have for military weapons," Russian ambassador Leonid Goluveb assured him.

Falconi - "The region does not want to find itself in an arms race," Ecuadoran Foreign Minister Falconi said ahead of the meeting.

Maduro (Venezuelan Foreign Minister -"How can the secretary of state say Venezuela is involved in an arms race when it is her country installing seven military bases?" Maduro asked, saying Clinton's words "have no political or moral basis."

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14 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 17th 2009, 16:49

The delegation of the US would like to state that there are indeed, evidence that USA's intentions in Latin America have proved to be peaceful, in order to seek benefit for developing nations.

Venezuela_Vanessa wrote: None of the various US intervention in South America caused any benifts to sa countries, but to the US.

How can the delegate of Venezuela keep accusing US intervention in Latin America, since Venezuela, over 9 years ago, was aided by the US after being devastated by floods? And, despite Chavéz's statements that there was no need for US intervention or aid, the US was still insisting in giving aid.

So, delegate of Venezuela, get your facts straight before accusing another country that actually aided your own country.

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15 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 17th 2009, 17:48

Fellow delegates,
www.latinamericanstudies.org is a very useful site. It deals with various topics including:
- Latino Immigrants in US society
- Latin America in the Global Context
- Contemporary Latin America
- Human Rights in Latin America
- Caribbean Island Nations
- Revolutionary Movements in Latin America
- Latin America and United States Relations
- Past and Present Mexico
→ Particularly the countries of Venezuela and USA might want to check their history of diplomatic relations in order to better defend respective points of view or perhaps change attitudes in relation to one another. Remember that the International Community seeks solvency rather than hostility.

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16 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 17th 2009, 18:00

DELEGATE OF THE US, Venezuela has already stated its conclusion about US' intervention in South America. But since the delegate brought back the issue: US' aids are insignificant compared to the damage and tension created by the northern American nation. US used, and uses, it money to aid other countries so it influence will grow among third-world countries and, then the US will be able to create a democratic world, where nations depend on the US. Imperialism ended, delegate of United States, and face it: no nation will stop the Bolivarian Revolution.

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17 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 17th 2009, 23:45

Fellow delegate of Venezuela,
Thank you for all the preciseness and effort.
After all this debate it remains clear that there is tension in the United States-Venezuela relations.
The question is: regardless all the present hostilities, is Venezuela still looking forward to have good relations with the US, in the same way it did seven years ago? (according to The Miami Herald, Feb 2002)

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18 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 18th 2009, 09:25

ChairAmericas_KiKi wrote:
The question is: regardless all the present hostilities, is Venezuela still looking forward to have good relations with the US, in the same way it did seven years ago? (according to The Miami Herald, Feb 2002)

Venezuela is not involving its economic ties with US in this tension between Ecuador, Venezuela and Colombia, and it hopes US continue doing the same. US need Venezuela's oil and US is the world's biggest consumer - meaning Venezuela need to sell its oil to US.

Colombia, under US influence, invaded Ecuador, Colombia was to first to receive military aids from US and Colombia is now planning to add US military bases in the Venezuelan/Colombian border. All Venezuela did was support Ecuador and buy arms from Russia and France to protect himself. Venezuela is currently in a defending position. Venezuela never planed, or plans, anything against Colombia, and Venezuela is not the only South American country that has create arm deals, everyone is worried about the US intervention.

Colombia and US were the ones who created this tension, and the ones who are expanding it. Venezuela and the other American nations have to right to protect themselves and the citizens among them from any possible attack.

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19 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 21st 2009, 23:06

Venezuela_Vanessa wrote:So the delegate of Colombia is saying that Colombia has no intension to invade Venezuela; the same way Colombia stated that there is no connections between Uribe and the coup in Honduras, and that Colombia defends Zelaya's government.

Well, the delegate of Venezuela find it quite interesting Colombia's action and plans in relationship with Colombia's sayings. So why did Uribe had a PRIVATE meeting ALONE with Hondura's coup leader and had NO press release about it after all?

Anyways, the delegation of Venezuela would like to take note of this facts:
1. Colombia said, in the past, that it had no intensions of invading Ecuador. However, it unexpectedly, immoraly and unrespetfully crossed Ecuador/Colombia's border threating the lives of innocent citizens in Ecaudorian nation.
2. The bases are plan to be place in Venezuela/Colombia's border.
3. Colombia is already the third-largest recipient of U.S. military funds
4. a) Colombia has received nearly six billion dollars in military aid from the United States since 1999
b) And before that there was 13 billion dollars aid from US to Colombia
5. The hundred american non-peacekeeping soilders that are serving in Colombia, currently

Sorry delegate of Colombia, but what Colombia has stated is proven to be irrelevant by Colombia itself. Since oil reserves were discovered in Venezuela, US has been targeting Venezuela; and interfering in Colombia was one of the quickest and easiest way the US found to attack Venezuela. Colombia is not trusthworhty; the arms deal between Russia and Venezuela were unfortunatly necessary and so was the arm deal between Brasil and France, Ecuador and Brazil and Israel, Bolivia and Russia. Yes, the delegate of Colombia might have noticed that most nations within the American caucus and the world choose to be against US military bases in Colombia. The 12 South American nations have spent over 51 billion dollars in military aids to protects it borders because of US' intervention in Colombia; so delegate, don't blame Venezuela, Venezuela was one of ALL South American nations that chose to protect their innocent citizens from Colombia (obviously meaning, US)."

The Delegation of Venezuela wants to know if the Colombian Delegation have any intensions to respond to Venezuela's post - which by the way was a respond to a past Colombian post!?!?!!?!

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20 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 22nd 2009, 08:35

Delegate of Venezuela,
the reasons Colombia HAD to enter Ecuador were simply the following:
-The FARC rebels are the chief drug traffickers in a country which produces most of the world's cocaine

-Rebels were being given covert support by both Ecuador and neighbouring Venezuela

-The rebels are major movers in international terrorism with plans to build a dirty radioactive 'dirty' bomb

-Colombians first bombed a rebel camp on their own side of the border. Rebels hiding across the border in Ecuador fired on them, so they crossed the border to fight back.

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21 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 22nd 2009, 19:33

Colombia_Gabriella wrote:Delegate of Venezuela,
the reasons Colombia HAD to enter Ecuador were simply the following:
1. The FARC rebels are the chief drug traffickers in a country which produces most of the world's cocaine

2. Rebels were being given covert support by both Ecuador and neighbouring Venezuela

3. The rebels are major movers in international terrorism with plans to build a dirty radioactive 'dirty' bomb

4. Colombians first bombed a rebel camp on their own side of the border. Rebels hiding across the border in Ecuador fired on them, so they crossed the border to fight back.






First, the
delegate of Venezuela has noticed how the delegate of Colombia chose to ignore
some of the facts the Delegation of Venezuela point it out in an earlier post
about US' intervention in Colombia, and decided to focus on Colombia's UNLEGAL
invasion of the Ecuadorian territory.

Anyways:
1. FARC is a Colombian revolutionary group, it’s not Ecuador’s fault
they were in Ecuador. The Colombian involved on FARC could be anywhere in the
world, doesn’t mean you should ILLGALY invade someone else’s territory.

2. The delegate is not aware of any action taken by the Ecuadorian government
to help FARC, but since the delegate of Venezuela speaks only for Venezuela ...
Venezuela has NO involvement with FARC. There is NO proof Venezuela is helping
FARC, for the simple reason Venezuela is NOT aiding FARC. Hugo Chavez said
himself that Venezuela is not an ally of FARC, doesn’t aid FARC or has any
involvement with FARC. But Venezuela is also not an enemy of FARC; FARC is
Colombia's problem - or maybe, solution - not Venezuela's.

3. FARC is not a terrorist group, it’s a revolutionary group.

4. So the delegate of Colombia is saying it would invade any country to deal
with FARC! Look delegate, as the delegate of Venezuela said before "FARC
is Colombia's problem." The attacks could have happen in any border.
So Colombia is stating that it would invade Venezuela, Brazil, Peru, and Panama
the same way it invaded Ecuador. The delegate of Colombia just gave another
reason for why South America spent over 51 billion dollars in arm deals. And by
the way, Colombia was really lucky it invaded Ecuador, because it wouldn't end
out the same way if it invaded Venezuela.

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22 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 22nd 2009, 20:20

According to computer material captured from the rebel group in recent months by Western intelligence agencies,Venezuelan officials are helping commanders of FARC, assisting them to arrange weapons deals in Venezuela and even obtain identity cards to allow them to move on Venezuelan soil. The materials point to collaborations between the guerrillas and military and intelligence officials in Hugo Chavez's government contradicting what both what the delegate of Venezuela and himself had said. Recently it was discovered Swedish rocket launchers sold to Venezuela ended up with the FARC, but they were fortunately captured by Colombian military in combat operations against FARC.
In relation to Colombian entrance in Ecuador, it was when Colombian commandos had access to computers of a FARC leader, with e-mails that showed close ties between Chavez's government and the group. One of the e-mail messages is from Ivan Marquez, a rebel commander, describing the FARC's plan to buy surface-to-air missils, sniper rifles and radios in Venezuela. He also wrote that the attempt was assisted by Gen. Henry Rangel Silva (director of Venezuela's police intelligence agency until his removal last month) and Ramon Rodriguez Chacin (former venezuelan interior minister). Another file brought up an offer from the FARC to instruct Venezuelan officers in guerrilla warfare matches recently obtained material from a rebel commander, Mr. Jimenez, that says the course took place!
In May another material was captured where Marquez (rebel commander) said Chavez spoke with Jimenez expressing cohesion for the FARC's efforts. Then Marquez referred to unspecific problems the FARC encountered in La Fria, and area in Venezuela (near border with Colombia).
So delegate, intelligence proves that the FARC surives in part on its chances to operate from and with support of Venezuela. With all these evidence of ties from the FARC and Venezuela, it would be inconsistent and irrational to say it is ONLY Colombia's issue.

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23 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 22nd 2009, 20:55

Venezuela_Vanessa wrote:DELEGATION OF CHILE, Iran economic ties with North Korea are their economic ties, not Venezuela's. As stated before, if the delegate were to suspect of all the allies of the nations considered to be Venezuela's allies, the delegate would end up suspecting more than half of nations reconized by the UN.

There is an fuccint saying in portugues as follows: "tell me with whom you associate and i will tell YOU who you are". If Venezuela is allied to Iran, then inderectly it has allied itself to North Korea as well. No one can denie that North Korea is a rogue state, which posessess atom bombs and into continental rockets. North Korea is perfectly capable of, in a sit of insanity launching a nuclear attack against South Korea, Japan, all the USA, precipetating a world wide nuclear war.
The Delegation of Chile is not laking in respect for Venezuela, the delegation simply states the facts. Nothing is harder to deny than facts.

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24 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 23rd 2009, 22:42

DELEGATE OF COLOMBIA, First of all FARC means revolutionary armed forces of Colombia, not Venezuela. FARC is not Venezuela's problem; FARC is not an ally; FARC is not an enemy; FARC is just another revolutionary group that has nothing to do with Venezuela's government. FARC hasen't done anything in favor or against Venezuela. And when the delegate said, "It would be inconsistent and irrational to say it is ONLY Colombia's issue." Well, FARC is not affecting Venezuela. So it might not be only Colombia's issue, but its not Venezuela's.

Delegate, please, keep your teories to yourself. All you stated dosen't prove there is any relationship with FARC and Hugo Chavez. And as the Delegation of Venezuela said before, Colombia won't find anything conecting Hugo Chavez with FARC, because there isn't anything.

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25 Re: Colombian territorial sovereignty on October 23rd 2009, 22:54

Venezuela_Vanessa wrote:Delegate, please, keep your teories to yourself. All you stated dosen't prove there is any relationship with FARC and Hugo Chavez. And as the Delegation of Venezuela said before, Colombia won't find anything conecting Hugo Chavez with FARC, because there isn't anything.

First off, I think it's "THEORIES", not "TEORIES", delegate of Venezuela, but, anyway.... bounce

Adding up to what the delegate of Colombia just stated, it is actually useless to debate with the delegate of Venezuela about this topic, since clearly it can be seen that Venezuela's president has been actively providing support to a terrorist organization, and that even on the face of proof, the delegate has been denying the obvious, even as the evidence is revealed. The delegate of the United States thus asks all of the delegates of the house:

How can you bargain with someone who lies without conscience?


Be sure to keep that in mind, fellow delegates...

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