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Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC

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1 Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on October 19th 2009, 20:04

ok delegates of the african caucus

I finally started to post some things here on the forum here we go

Just to clarify your mindsmy question is about completely eradicating the International Criminal Court which consists (for the ones that don't know) of an organization part of the UN derivated from the ICJ that prosecutes not states like the ICJ but individuals that are direclty or indirectly connected war crimes such as genocides and others.

I will here state some reasons of why Sudan would like the disappearance of such a messly organization:
first of all, Sudan never agreed to such non-sense as the ICC, then our state is not under the juridistinction of it and therefore can not be put in trial. (think of it like sovereignty system) It is not fair and just to put in justice someone not under the control and power of a court.

Second, if Omar Al-Bashir (Sudan's head of state) is being procecuted by Luis Moreno-Ocampo where his prosecution aplication was made in 14 of July(2008) and the warrant arrest 4 March of 2009. Bashir is the first head of state put in the ICC. The ICC alleged also that the Darfur conflict is a genocide but doesn't have sufficient proofs when accusing showing once more an irreversible error that concludes the needing of its eradication.

other reason will come as my research goes on ....

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2 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on October 19th 2009, 20:21

the sudanese delegate would like to invite all of you to comment of the darfur conflict and the ICC accusations.

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3 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on October 19th 2009, 22:33

Delegates,
the following link contain some resolutions abording the Darfur conflict:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/docs.asp?Topic=Sudan&Type=Resolution

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4 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on October 25th 2009, 22:55

Here are some great videos and other resources on genocide, bosnia, rwanda, darfur, congo, etc. Especially worth watching is the Sudan conflict explained in 10 minutes! I showed these in my 10th grade class and we discussed them, but I thought I should share.

http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/genocide
What is genocide? Its evolution in international law all the way to the ICC and Crimes against Humanity...
http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/gallery/portrait/amanpour

Bosnia with Christiane Amanpour
http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/gallery/portrait/dachy
Bosnia srebrenica massacre
http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/gallery/portrait/kandic
Bosnia Srebrenica
http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/gallery/portrait/nuhanovic
Bosnia Srebrenica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__kf7TljgGs
rwanda class video...intro to the conflict
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7UK3B6VWQ&feature=related
rwanda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXdWDM4fmRY
(Where is the love? Darfur)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeC6S6bDTXI&feature=related
silence on Darfur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USLDoIiFzzg&feature=related
sudan explained in 10 min…excellent
http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/gallery/portrait/lemkinhttp://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/gallery/portrait/lemkin
International law…hope to do something against genocide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dchqJ7bhCBA&feature=related
Never Again—anti Genocide movement footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urKOYd3cfdU&feature=channel
Don Cheadle 1800GENOCIDE and divestment campaign
http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/atrisk/region/dr-congo#564
Congo...is it Genocide? Congo and Rwanda, how they are related, etc.

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5 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on October 25th 2009, 22:57

Comparing Sudan's conflict to genocidal events can give some information against it, so take a look and prepare some arguments. (Posting excerpts from such articles shall be considered effective if followed by a comment or directly related to what is being discussed)

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6 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on October 25th 2009, 23:01

http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/atrisk/region/dr-congo#564 This is a must--especially for Special Committee!!!

The site this is from, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum site, has lots of great info on genocide and crimes against humanity, ICC, Sudan, Congo, etc. Videos, interviews, timelines, articles...

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7 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 1st 2009, 23:36

Now Sudan may try to justify non-compliance with the ICC with the concept of sovereignty. However, as a member of the UN, Sudan has to consider UNSC resolution 1593, which
urges all States, whether party or not to the Rome Statute, as well as international and regional organisations to “cooperate fully” with the Court.

http://www.icc-cpi.int/NR/exeres/0EF62173-05ED-403A-80C8-F15EE1D25BB3.htm

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8 South Africa is against Sudan's Resolution on November 2nd 2009, 20:32

South Africa is totally against Sudan's rediculous resolutoion of eradicating an so important and well devoloped organization that have been solving many international issues during all this time. It's an absurd the action that Sudan want's to be made and South Africa urges all countries to be against this resolution. Eradicating the ICC would result only in problems continues no benefit will bring to us. thank you.

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9 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 3rd 2009, 08:40

The delegation of Rwanda is completely against this resolution.
Rwanda strongly believes that the ones responsible for mass slaughters should be tried and punished. And as the Sudanese govt. is responsible for sponsoring the janjaweed by giving them weapons and ammo, it should be tried
And even though the UN doesn't aknoledge it, what is happening in Sudan is genocide, there is one group that is exterminating the lower class in Sudan, the people are being exterminated depending on their economic status, and most of Sudan's lower class belongs to one race.
Open to corrections

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10 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 3rd 2009, 11:55

The delegation of Kenya disagrees with Sudan. Since Omar Al-Bashir has committed such crimes, he should be blamed for all he has done.



Last edited by Kenya_Beatriz on November 11th 2009, 20:51; edited 1 time in total

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11 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 3rd 2009, 13:25

Okay here it goes...
Delegate of Chad...
You just showed that because of the resolution 1593 and some articles of the UN Charter that oblige Sudan to consider SC resolutions, that Omar Al Bashir should go under court even tough the concept of sovereignty goes against it. The delegate forgot that during this resolution, Sudan was not part of the Security Council to defend itself and had therefore no opinion to support its cause. Another thing, nobody from the Sc abstained which as said before, the ICC only follows the interests of the Western countries resulting in the passing of the resolution. The resolution is not credible. Another comment, I looked upon this certain resolution 1593 upon http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2005/sc8351.doc.htm and didn't find the quote stated in the operative clauses :urges all States, whether party or not to the Rome Statute, as well as international and regional organisations to “cooperate fully” with the Court.

Maybe it was a mistake but Sudan urges all countries of the african caucus to ignore the chadian post until clearness is made.

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12 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 3rd 2009, 13:34

Noting the fact that, by being part of the UN, sudanese gov is urged to cooperate fully with the ICC. But the ICC is not judging a person, the ICC is now judging a head of state. To trial a head of state is trying all the acts made by the state. If obashir is to be condemned for crimes against humanity he needs to be condemned as a citizen after he is out of power and not now during a agitated period, in which sudanese people need their head of state.

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13 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 3rd 2009, 13:38

Now South African delegate...
2 things...
First, how can South Africa be against the resolution since it covers your interests. The ICC is not a credible organization. The delegate stated that the ICC has been solving a lot of issues since its creation, state some... because Sudan doesn't see any type of accomplishments for the ICC.
Second, all the prosecutions and arrests made by the ICC are located in AFRICA meaning that the "well developed organization" is focusing in AFRICA where the delegate is a representative from. How can you be against the resolution when the ICC is directly focused on YOU! (Just use the right logic it will become then more clear to the delegate)

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14 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 3rd 2009, 13:44

Rwandan delegate, you have no legal proof that my government is sponsoring the janjaweed
the darfur conflict is not genocide since the intent of eradicating a race is missing. The delegate needs to acknowledge that the darfur conflict started with DESERTIFICATION eliminating then the option of genocide. As stated to the south african delegate, Rwanda should be in favor of the resolution since it covers your interests.

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15 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 3rd 2009, 13:47

Since no ones resolution has been posted yet, I would to clarify some things, the sudanese delegate is willing to eradicate the ICC but would not let the world without an international court. The Sudanese gov emphazises that the purpose of the ICC is good but is not credible at all. Instead the sudanese government would like to create a new ICC changing some articles of the Rome Statute.
Thank you

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16 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 3rd 2009, 14:01

Like my fellow delegate has sayd, no one has any prof about the goverment of sudan is sponsering the janjaweed. by the way there are some speculations that the chad gov is sponsering these rebles. This because, as we all know sudanese refuges are being killed and raped INSIDE refuge camps in chad. (if you dont know what im talking about chech out pedros post about refuges )

Ea!

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17 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 09:19

Rwanda is not in favor of this resolution because the ICC is the organ that is responsibel for the trial of crimes against humanity and genocide. Why would RWANDA want to eliminate that?

And as the delegateof Sudan has already stated, because Sudan is a part of the UN it is obliged to fully cooperate with teh ICC, that is responsible for condemning someone for crimes against humanity, and as it was also already stated, the government of Sudan has nothing to do with the janjaweed, if that is true, why worry about a trial.

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18 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 11:45

Correction
The delegation of Rwanda is deeply sorry for stating wrong information
the delegation of Rwanda is questioning about the fairness of the ICC because ever since it was created it has only condemned african and poor countries, not expressing justice equally.
Rwanda will willingly vote in favor of the resolution if what the delegation of Sudan is proposing is a change in the ICC

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19 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 17:11

Delegate of Sudan,
By the end of the conference, I will have you in court.

I promise.
Cheers.

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20 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 20:09

Second.

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21 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 20:13

Second²

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22 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 20:20

The delaget though he had deleted his previous post, but after such statement was vehemently supported by the USA, it is fitting that it be left there for the sake of future reference. In order to complete the point made in the previous post, follows the same argument used in the SC forum:

Respectful delegates of Sudan. The discussion regarding Sudan and Darfur has gone on for far too long. Longer than any of us would like. The UK is ready to once again, with the help of the USA, the Commonwealth and similar countries offer help. if Sudan continues to refuse such aid, drastic action will need to be taken. What is happening in Darfur has long escalated beyond a matter of Sudanese Security. It is an issue of international importance. An issue which is being aggravated by the minute and if it is not stopped soon, will pose a threat to the entire world. Your government has shown its inaptidude in dealing with the issue. it is time to embrace help or face the consequences. if the delegate does not cooperate, then we'll see each other in court.

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23 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 20:27

Delegate of the United Kingdom: For a delegate, you seem very eager to go to court. Perhaps you should try law?

*************************

Joking aside, the Darfur conflict has reached an alarming point, where 3 million people have died or lost their homes. The conflict has been fueled by illicit small arms trade (which is dealt with in my resolution) and supposedly by the government itself, which is the reason for the prosecution of Mr. Omar al-Bashir. The international community is willing to take actions, but you need to lay down your guns agains us - the real enemy is the Janjaweed, the armed militia, whose armed power is destroying your nation. We must act, and we must do it NOW, before the conflict gets any worse.

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24 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 20:41

The delegate of course, being a graduate of the Politics, Philosphy and Economics course at the University of Oxford has great admiration for the law.

Not so much for the law itself, but justice. Justice which is not being carried out in Sudan. Justice which we have sworn to protect. Justice, a term that seems to have all but been eradicated from the vocabulary of Sudan, China and Russia. Justice which the UK will make sure will be carried out by the end of the conference. What does justice entail? The punishment of those who have punished others and committed heinous crimes. No more will the situation in Sudan be tolerated, no more we will sit by idly and watch as millions are massacred. No more. This is the justice the UK seeks, the Justice the UK fights for, and the Justice the UK is willing to go to great extents to achieve. When these criminals go to court, then justice will have been served, not for myself or any of us, but to the Sudanese population, who have long cried for it only to be silenced by the hacking of machetes and the firing of the AK-47's. It is time we give them a voice. A voice so loud and powerful that those responsible will shake in fear. This is justice.

Separating the janjaweed from the Sudanese government is an ever so complex task. As time goes by, the harder it becomes to distinguish between the two... Anyhow, the UK welcomes any nations willing to support its quest for justice and peace in Sudan. For all of those willing to oppose us, good luck.

Thank you,
Her Majesty's Humble Servant
The U.K Delegate



Last edited by GBaiardi_U.K on November 5th 2009, 21:08; edited 2 times in total

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25 Re: Sudan conflict in darfur and the ICC on November 5th 2009, 20:44

GBaiardi_U.K wrote:Delegate of Sudan,
By the end of the conference, I will have you in court.

I promise.
Cheers.

Delegate of UK,
This comment is not appropriate AT ALL. Like every systematic mention to meeting the Sudanese delegate in courts
. The delegate may tell whatever passes through his mind in the conference (GA is not ICJ), but on this forum, this insulting attitude will not be tolerated.

Maybe the delegate is borrowing a provoking and insolent tone similar to the insults thrown in UK between Members of Parliament from Tories and Whigs, but it's UN here, and respect among delegations while debating is essential, much more than nice sentence structures.

Delegate of UK, consider it as an informal warning. In the future, I will check if your posts are both respectful and appropriate.
And please US delegates, show some maturity before seconding.
Best Regards
Oscar, Forum Admin

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